NA vs FI (low power vs bulk power) Tims theory on why slow 86s are more fun

s14seriesII

Member
Feb 11, 2007
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hoebart, tas
You're absolutely right Adam,
I remember back in the day in kierans 4agte ae86 on 195 tyres struggling to put down 130rwkw.. That was a fun car, but poor shocks (excel g's) and old goodyear f1 tyres did nothing to help the situation, that's why I think it's all in vehicle setup like the suspension components used and quality of shocks that make a car feel as it should... Or shouldn't.
I'm still not 100% happy with how mine is but it's not bad by any means
 

Tim.duncan

Active Member
Nov 11, 2008
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Snowy mountains
good stuff mark its great to hear the other side from time to time

holy crap 700HP!! sounds insane when you use theses figures

sometimes wish i had access and the skills at an engine building shop so i could just go nuts and try all sorts of set ups (most likely still play with NA motors though ha ha)
 

xero

Active Member
Oct 4, 2006
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northern beaches, sydney
sometimes wish i had access and the skills at an engine building shop so i could just go nuts and try all sorts of set ups (most likely still play with NA motors though ha ha)
timmeh, you necessarily need any mad skillz or engine building shops, lots of research goes a long way before making a decision.
i know ive said this 11ty times but each major component of my car was researched ad-nauseum before a purchase was made. a couple of examples:
the greddy type S suspension.
i read EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE, THREAD, FORUM POST, MERE MENTION of them before i made a decision. it did help that most of them came to the same general conclusion and ive been happy with my decision.

my extractors.
i read articles, books, PDFs, threads, looked at pictures, dyno charts, engine setups, EVERYTHING! hell even the exhuast shop offered valuable advice before i went ahead. im still not 100% they are the best design (about 99.9% though) but i havent come across anything that disproves what ive done.



going back to what mark said, you could have all the power in the world but unless you can put it down there is no point. you need the suspension set up that goes with and will work with that power figure.

now im going to try and be brief in regards to my opinion of N/A v FI. i dont dislike FI in fact i love it, but my personal preference is N/A.
i love the response, i love take on corners are much higher speed and taking to the bigger cars. i dont think i will ever get tired of it. i have driven a few turbo cars (mostly RWD S-chassis nissans, so make of that what you will) and while i do like the torque and the 'shove in the back' it just doesnt compare to the sheer ferocity of a well sorted angry N/A car. a turbo car can be easily driven quickly, but takes time to master but rarely challenges you, an N/A car challenges you from the get go and may never be mastered.

hell major step in the modification process has required retraining of my brain on how to drive the car, and im still learning...
 

Bluesprinter

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Aug 25, 2008
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Sydney
i agree, its fun chasing cars that are on the faster on the straights then around corners, but what happens when they are fast around corners and straight?.. your kinda stuck forever chasing in the back distance.

If you want to be fast in your AE86, you need power regardless if its bigger displacement or FI.

this is the same with the popular honda boys, they are lucky honda came out with a K series engine, this put them back in the game of being fast and staying true to honda and being NA... but the fast hondas all turn to force induction because lets face it, NA isn't fast enough or a smart money spent investment to being fast in real world application

Lets compare apples with apples.

Two AE86 both have suspension and chassis modification to allow for its power to be in good use.

So now do you go with a NA beams or a bigger displacement engine like a v6?, or do you go force induction with almost endless power, again both power will be useable because suspension will allow it to work.

in the real world, its not easy with a AE86, but staying NA is and gets expensive real fast for not much more gain
 

org86t

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May 27, 2006
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Fern Bay NSW
i agreed 100% i loved my 4age setup from the moment i first drove it.... no it was never fast but i found ways to be fast in it

move forward to now i personally feel ive wrecked it with a turbo and has got me thinking again of my setup... yes it is still fun to drive but its lost that determination to be faster because its already fast enough you find yourself not caring if you stuff up cause you can get those vital seconds back easily
 

Stej

New Member
Dec 10, 2007
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Here
I'm in the same boat mate. Have turbo charged the ae86 and not really liking it. I have a n/a 4age 20v going in the near future. I think having the car simple makes it a bit more rewarding to drive.
 

Tim.duncan

Active Member
Nov 11, 2008
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Snowy mountains
Good to hear your input guys

I also love how simple NA is having owned a ZE
No silly intercoolers and joins to worry about leaking and taking up room

Just less to go wrong
 

Delazy

Active Member
Oct 3, 2006
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Tasmania
Less is definitely more... It's what made the ae86 such a crazy popular car to begin with... It can be made to suit a more technically advanced era, but turbos aren't the way...
 

luke20

New Member
Oct 16, 2012
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Brisbane
I have N/A 86 and love it to bits. Its got ITB's on the 16v and cams and the other usual mods and its awesome. its not the fastest thing around but its very quick up in the mountains. Cant wait to put my 4.77's in it. They should really compliment it :)
 

evil86

Member
Apr 25, 2007
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Liverpool
Not be be boring but I'd have to say the same. From 4ac to 4age 16v and comtemplating 4agte at one stage purely for the cost and power. I've now got a 20v and would have it any other way. Not the fastest engine around but definately does everything you want it to do. If I wanted to go turbo I'd buy a turbo car.

But if you were after abit more NA power what would be your option. BEAMS, F20C, V6 or V8?
 

medan

Member
Nov 10, 2006
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western sydney
Hi comp, small turbo.

For me thats the best of both worlds, it makes enough torque to overtake people on the freeway but is still responsive and fun enough to drive hard without being too scary and breaking stuff.

I think around the 100-120rwkw is a pretty sweet spot for an ae86 chassis.

I know most people dont like the idea of a higher comp (stock smallport or 20v ratio) 4age with a turbo, but once you drive one it makes so much sense. Just needs a decent tune and some sense in the person driving it...
 

Pat

Active Member
Nov 29, 2006
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e-town tasmania
medan is spot on i recon.

fwiw i recon a similar result could be had with a later gze and better supercharger like the ones off the mercedes....
 

xero

Active Member
Oct 4, 2006
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northern beaches, sydney
Pat, a mate of mine with a decent exhaust and "street" tuned adaptronic was making 125rwkw and was a fairly quick thing. This was in a AW11 and while he had the straight line speed just didn't quite have the corner speed of my car... :D